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  • Writer's pictureStand-Up Comedy Historian

An Interview with Michael Shaw, Magician and Bo Burnham Video Editor

Some of my favorite Bo Burnham-related videos nearly slipped through the cracks of the algorithm and my preconceived notions of what a "professional" video should look like.

Case in point: the outstanding and beautifully edited Bo Burnham but I shut up by YouTuber Michael Shaw.

When I first saw the video pop up (I always sort by upload date, as Bo had suggested in many interviews, in order to see the newest takes), I had assumed it was just another simple bit where the audio cuts off after Bo does the "Shut the Fuck Up" routine from Inside. I had seen dozens of these basic videos and was pretty bored by the lack of effort.

Fortunately, I'd reconsidered and watched Michael's take on Inside, and BOY, was I glad that I did. Bo Burnham but I actually shut up is now one of my favorite videos about Bo's masterpiece, and Michael skillfully incorporates the themes of Inside with YouTubers, Marshall McLuhan, The Social Dilemma, and even Phoebe Bridgers (!) all while letting the sources speak for themselves in the manner of Now You See It's popular video essays.

It's a wonderful piece, and I had ranked it last year as the fourth-best Bo-related video. As such, I wanted to reach out to its creator and see how Michael came up with the concept and where he got all of his fantastic reference material.

Luckily, Michael was a gem and quickly answered all of my burning questions—he even let me know about the Medium is the Massage, which definitely seems prescient in the age of the attention economy.

Here's my interview with Michael, which has been edited and condensed for clarity purposes.

Stand-Up Comedy Historian: Hi, Michael! Thanks for having this chat with me about your YouTube channel and your incredible video on Bo Burnham and Inside.

Michael Shaw: It's my pleasure.

SUCH: Awesome! So first things first, please tell my readers about your background.

Michael: Sure thing! My name is Michael Shaw. I'm 28 years old, I live in Central Florida with my wife Sydney and cat Theo, and I went to Berry College in Northwest Georgia for Communication and Public Relations with a minor in Writing.

Thanks for having me on your blog, Jessica.

SUCH: Great, and it's no problem! I love learning about people's passions in life.

So what compelled you to create your first video? When did you get started? And what software/tools do you use for editing?

Michael: Believe it or not, my YouTube channel started in 2009 at the turn of the new year as a magic trick channel. I've been obsessed with magic tricks ever since middle school and wanted to start showing them off; I was involved in the online magic community at the time, sharing tricks on online forums, chat rooms, and everything like that. 

On top of that, though, I've also had a long passion for story. I would make serialized comic books for my friends to read and we would get in trouble at church for talking about those instead of listening. I've self-published a couple books—one in high school and one in college.

So when I got to have the privilege of going to college, I focused more on my creative writing passion. My classes in both my Communication major and my Writing minor really helped to stoke that passion but also provided a larger foundation of knowledge for that passion. I fell in love with a lot of video essay channels at the time—Lessons from the Screenplay and the like. I remember being out of college and thinking "well, I want to make that now."

I've always enjoyed YouTube as a way to just immediately create something from a place of passion and see what people think about it.

When I shifted my channel toward videos about movies and writing, I would sheepishly record voiceovers in my bedroom in a house full of like 5 guys that we were renting. At the time, I used Final Cut Pro to edit, as that was what I'd learned in college with my degree and on-campus media job, but I've since moved to iMovie.

I hope no one counts me out as unprofessional for that reason. I just realized I was being too fancy with Final Cut—automations and graphic animations. You can see it in my earlier film videos. To me, as long as the content is engaging, informative, and delivers on what it promises, I think you can do that with a more minimal approach. 

SUCH: Agreed that minimal is best. And wow, you're a published author! That's really impressive, and I'm happy to hear that you have been able to parlay your passion for writing and film into your fantastic YouTube channel.

Your background in magic is fascinating too, especially because comedy is SO in bed with magic. Bo and Pete Holmes even discuss their mutual love for magic tricks on the third podcast episode of You Made It Weird, and Bo says he tried to do a trick on the set of The Big Sick and was disappointed in his fellow actors' reactions. [Ed. note: You can find the link to the episode in my Bo podcast a day post here.]

So when did you first discover Bo and his works? Are you a longtime fan or a newer one because of Inside?

Michael: I don't remember who recommended Bo Burnham to me, but I think I remember watching his special what. in college. Then Make Happy just became one of my favorite things ever for a while. Or maybe I saw Make Happy before the other one; it's hard to remember. When I learned he was sort of born out of YouTube, that made me like him even more. I think I've been a fan since around 2017 or so.

SUCH: That's cool, but it must have been frustrating becoming a fan right when he began his five-year hiatus from comedy. I started watching Bo obsessively in 2019 after seeing Eighth Grade and have been down the rabbit hole since haha.

What is your process for making videos? How long do they typically take to make from concept to the final product?

Michael: I just make what I want to. Of course, I've tried to also think about what people want to see. There's a cynical way to look at it, but I think there's a cool synthesis you can get at the intersection of what interests you and what people will watch on YouTube.

As far as completion time, I guess it has oscillated over time. I would like to think I've gotten more streamlined, but sometimes I've spent way longer on a project just because of my interest in it. Being a side thing, it was always before and after work and on weekends.

I would usually try to set a project as a weeklong thing: script in a day, voiceover in a day, and a few days for editing; but of course, it usually would go longer for one reason or another. I think I over-idealize project timelines in my head!

SUCH: I can certainly relate to being overly ambitious with your passion projects! Sometimes it's best to take a step back and be like, "Does anyone really care about this being perfect, or am I setting myself up for failure because of my unrealistic expectations?" It's a constant struggle for me and this website.

Back to your YouTube creations.

Your channel has the slogan "writing demystified." Do you have a background in screenwriting specifically? You definitely seem knowledgeable in that subject matter.

Michael: Yeah, I'm grateful for my college professors and everything they taught me for that. I mean, I still have imposter syndrome. I think all my writing classmates went on to get their MFAs in creative writing, and they always had really good things to say.

They knew about more authors and authorities in the field than me, but that was the great thing. I got to learn from a ton of people around me who were way smarter and just crushing it, and then they'd read my fiction piece or bargain bin poem and still gave me gracious feedback. That really helped me grow and learn.

I got really passionate about the talking-about-writing aspect of my videos during a summer class going over literature across histories and cultures. That class led me to Joseph Campbell.

Joseph Campbell

I think a lot of people take the whole monomyth thing for granted now because it's all been blogged and posted and distilled into its most basic, repeatable ideas, but I was really struck by the profoundness of archetypes and how roles, beats, and deliberate pacing in story can evoke a powerful experience in a reader or viewer.

SUCH: That's great that you are open to feedback! And don't worry about others having higher just need to do you!

And it's so cool you brought up Campbell's monomyth because Bo actually HAD "Call to Adventure" and "Hero's Journey" written on his whiteboard in Inside!

The Hero's Journey and a transcribed version of Bo's outline on Reddit

Your most popular video on your channel is a beautifully edited dissection of La La Land's ending. This actually reminded me of a powerful episode of How I Met Your Mother (I know, I know) when Ted goes on a date and imagines what life would be like if they were together.

Anyway, why do you think this is your most-viewed video essay? Did its success give you confidence to continue making your videos, or did it make you feel pigeonholed?

Michael: I really enjoyed making that video. It didn't do much at first in terms of performance, then one day it started raking in views. I remember when it hit 15K, it was already a year behind me and I thought, "that's so cool!"

Now it's over 100K, which is still modest in the big-boy-numbers world of YouTube, but I'm grateful people keep finding it. 

As far as why it did well, I think it's just the most SEO-accurate prediction I've made on my YouTube channel. I happened to love La La Land, I loved the ending, and I knew people were all talking about it and its ending. It felt like a sweet spot and turned out to be right. To this day, I know people keep finding it because they're looking up that movie. 

When I saw it start to bump up higher, it definitely gave me a bit of a boost. The best part of having that as my most successful video currently is just how vulnerable and authentic people are in the comments. People sharing about love that worked or didn't work and what this movie meant to them and the timing of where it hit them in their lives. 

It's just really nice that my most engaged video doesn't have people raging at me because I clickbaited them, or people arguing with each other. I do get disagreement to my analysis, but it's all constructive and thoughtful. 

SUCH: Definitely! It can be so demoralizing when something you create isn't received the way you had intended, but I'm glad that people are respectful in the comment section of that video.

And I totally agree about enjoying seeing vulnerable and authentic reactions from viewers. I had recently created a very long post of all the comments I had found that caught my attention in Bo's videos just as a reminder to people that his music and works continue to resonate with individuals across the planet. It's really exciting to see!

So let's discuss your Inside video.

Although you have a good amount of views on it, Bo Burnham but I shut up is still criminally underrated compared to other Inside video essays. Why do you think that is? My best guess is your title that, unfortunately, is phrased in a similar manner to very simple videos where it just cuts off after Bo says STFU. 

Michael: Yeah, I think I agree with you. Sometimes I'm just stubborn with that sort of thing; like, I could change the title but I really don't want to.

I'm not Bo, but it felt like a Bo thing to do: use a meme template as the title, and then deliver something thoughtful while still fulfilling the constraints of the prompt. It literally is Bo Burnham-focused, and I literally do not talk. I'm sure there's other algorithmic reasons that went into it not breaking 1K, but I'm okay with that. I like the video. 

SUCH: That is such a positive attitude about your work! And yes, you are completely right that creating a thoughtful video with a clickbait title is in Bo's wheelhouse (see all of Make Happy for how Bo can surprise an audience).


Okay, so how the HELL did you find that Pete Holmes clip? I follow the Bo subreddit religiously, and I must have missed this post or something. What a fascinating explanation by Pete, and thank you SO much for sharing that wonderful insight into Bo's mind!

Michael: I used to be a constant Reddit lurker, and I'm pretty sure the Bo Burnham subreddit pointed me in the right direction for that one! That subreddit was helpful during video research as well, just finding clips and interviews and stuff. So, shout out to them! Glad you found a new clip out of it!

SUCH: Oh, for sure. We're always collecting new stuff about Bo haha.

And after some research, I did find that clip. I had upvoted the audio version, but I was so focused on the part about Bo being like Vincent van Gogh (my favorite artist) in the Mall of America that I had overlooked the latter part you had incorporated into your video. So thanks for finding that video footage!

Selfie in front of Starry Night at the MoMA

I really appreciate how you let Bo and his works speak for themselves and did not include any voiceover narration. What made you decide to follow that approach to editing? It reminded me personally of the phenomenal video essay about Bo and lighting that Now You See It posted in 2019.

Was that the inspiration for trying that technique, or were you unaware of that particular YouTube video?

Michael: I have seen that video and love it. You know, maybe it subconsciously had inspired me, but the one I drew upon directly was the video Is Joker Cinema? also by Now You See It.

It feels ironic that I didn't go directly from his Bo video with that format to making mine, but I think the Joker video happened to have come out more recently and was more freshly on my mind.

Creative limitations are really cool to me. I just find the minimalism of taking all the stuff that's out there, and then reordering it to make a narrative or try to show something in particular, is really really nice.

SUCH: Absolutely! What's the phrase? Necessity is the mother of invention? I agree that putting limits on your work can absolutely inspire more innovation. I mean, look at what Bo was able to accomplish in one guesthouse!

So I have a number of questions for you about your choice of sources. For example, how did you locate the very old, black-and-white footage of two men discussing media? It's perfectly paired with the algorithm and is so powerful to watch.

Was that originally a program about television's influence, perhaps about war footage like during Vietnam? 

Michael: I learned about this from my college days. Marshall McLuhan coined the phrase "the medium is the message" from his analysis on how media impacts people, and I learned about him in Communication class.

That idea has always really stuck with me, that the way in which we consume information, the medium, plays a big part in impacting and shaping us, just as much as—if not more than—the information itself.

There's a musician and spiritual writer, Strahan Coleman, who said something like "you scroll down, and you see a tragedy, then you scroll down further, and you see a cute puppy. That's like your best friend coming up to you and giving you a punch in the face, and then immediately trying to cheer you up with a joke."

Strahan Coleman

At least right now, you can find that interview clip in the video "Marshall McLuhan 1966 - Predicting the Internet with Robert Fulford."

SUCH: Thank you for that explanation. Damn, McLuhan hit the nail on the head about technology's influence on our thoughts. Especially with the algorithms that dominate social media! Powerful stuff that reminds me of Douglas Rushkoff and Present Shock.

Douglas Rushkoff and Bo

I also was SO happy to see you incorporate The Social Dilemma into your video about Inside. Yes, some of the acting is over-the-top, but that documentary really affected my understanding of social media and its influence on society. It made me remove all my notifications and get rid of most of my apps (although I'm back on Instagram now to promote my website—Damn you, Zuckerberg! lol).

What was the reason you wanted to include footage from that Netflix documentary? Also is it just me, or did that movie predict January 6th? Crazy.

Michael: I think it makes a good point about how technology demands our attention and can shape our whole behaviors and psychology. It's kind of a meme to say "phone bad, tree good," but I think in general, people seem to be caught up to the fact that social media does something to us, right?

Maybe at first, we want to defend new technology so we're not stuck in the past. It's complicated, but in general I think we all know now that at least an intentional posture toward media and how it shapes us is always going to be a better posture than just letting media happen to us so it can spit us out the other side into whatever it makes us to be.

I definitely relate with what you're saying about notification tension! I'm always thinking, why do my YouTube notifications have to be on in my iPhone settings just for me to have the bell icon clicked to support my favorite creators? Like, keep the notifications internal to the app without buzzing my home screen; why does it have to be one or the other? I wish we had a different term than "necessary evil," but I guess it's something like that. Maybe, allowed-and-heavily-scrutinized downside would be better, but less catchy.

SUCH: Oh, I like that phrase! Yeah, it's so hard to balance being supportive of new technology and keeping yourself healthy mentally. One of the hardest lessons I learned as a young mother was that tablets were not the educational tools they had been advertised to be.

I remember working in educational publishing when the iPad premiered in 2010, and the tablets were being touted as the future of technology, the BEST way to interact with stories (Alice in Wonderland is what they showed us at McGraw-Hill), and could even provide crucial skills like learning the alphabet for young children.

Now I look back at all that and hear Bo's Welcome to the Internet laugh—I was so naïve.

But I digress. Back to your video!

How did you decide on which reactors to include? I was really happy to see Chris Reacts in the mix because I ADORE his videos (and I'm working on a Bo Reaction Video a Day for later this year that will feature many of the same people). 

Having the footage of the reactors reacting to Bo's reaction video was also deliciously meta—I loved that part!

Michael: It felt cool to be able to portray the cultural moment that seemed to be happening with Inside—the wider audience it was getting—by portraying that through a YouTuber lens. So, having a bunch of different Youtuber reactions cut together.

There were a couple I knew I wanted just as a YouTube user who had already seen some content creators react to it, like Michael Reeves on the TMG podcast.

But then I got to be exposed to others just by looking for who all was making videos about Inside: people like Hannah Bayles, who's a vocal coach, but she provides that insight through videos about media people are interested in.

It's crazy to search up "INSIDE reaction" again now and see just how many more people have made videos about it!

SUCH: Absolutely. There are thousands of Bo reaction videos out there! He seems to be a pretty popular topic on YouTube in general haha.

So you have audio from one of Bo's podcast appearances while he was working on his masterpiece, (Happy Sad Confused), but did you realize he had done two other ones for Promising Young Woman? You can find the links in my podcast a day post. 

Michael: I don't think I was aware of those! I'm excited to check them out!

SUCH: That's understandable. The other two are U Up? and Pop Culture Confidential (his last interview since he never promoted Inside in that manner).

They offer some insight into Bo's views on relationships, TikTok, and the pandemic while he was simultaneously working on his magnum opus.

Your inclusion of Bo's interview with Sam Jones for Off-Camera is one of my favorites as well (and March 10th in a Bo interview a day).

Why do you think Bo was so open and emotional during that discussion? It's also beautifully shot and features some of his best descriptions of social media.

Michael: I really love the style of the Sam Jones interviews since they appear to be more raw and serious. I feel like Bo always has something to say, regardless of where he's interviewed. It seems like Sam Jones does a good job in creating that sort of atmosphere, too. 

SUCH: Definitely! He also has wonderful interviews with John Mulaney and Patton Oswalt among other comics and actors. I love that series!

So you have the audio about Bo laying low before announcing Inside in April 2021, but that's not ENTIRELY true. The day before he posted the door crack pic on Instagram on April 26, 2021, his scene with Carey Mulligan in the coffee shop was featured at the Academy Awards! 

Did you feel like the footage and audio just made more sense to excise that fact from your video, or were you unaware of the massive impact Promising Young Woman had during awards season?

Michael: That's a good point. I knew of Promising Young Woman but hadn't seen it, and unfortunately still have yet to check it out to this day! Guess I need to get around to it.

But for the video, I felt pretty focused on comedy specials created by Bo Burnham. There seemed to be a timeline of Bo making comedy specials, stopping, and then coming back with Inside, which I wanted to focus on. 

SUCH: That makes sense. But I do highly recommend that you watch Emerald Fennell's film. It's absolutely fascinating, and it features Bo's best acting to date. Plus, Emerald won the Oscar for Best Original Screenplay, and she is a phenomenal actor as well on The Crown!

Fun fact: Emerald plays the always-pregnant Midge in the Barbie movie, and it seems to be a bit autobiographical—she was 7 months pregnant while filming PYW in 2019 AND she was pregnant at the Academy Awards in 2021! So impressive, and a great role model for working mothers.

Carey Mulligan, Emerald, Laverne Cox, and Bo on the set of Promising Young Woman

Another aspect you failed to mention in your video is that Bo had a planned performance in April 2020, so he literally WAS preparing to do stand-up again. Do you think that information strengthens your argument, or was it best to leave out specifics?

Michael: I didn't know that! But it also still seems to check out with what I feel like Bo was saying in and out of his special: he had left comedy for his mental health, and he was planning to return, but then "the funniest thing happened." I tried to take his recounting of events from All Eyes On Me and connect the dots through how other media and interviews tied into that timeline.

SUCH: Yes, and I adore how you clarify those connections and turn them into a cohesive story! Really entertaining to watch.

So it's funny to me that you (rightfully) included Bo winning the HCA Virtuoso Award because I had recently interviewed the creator of that stunning montage, Zachary Marsh, and his work was the third best video in my list to your fourth best one (although both are immaculately put together!).

What was your impression of Bo's win and his kiss-filled acceptance speech? Dude is insane, right? it.

Michael: That's so cool! I am glad that Bo won that award, too. And his acceptance speech, haha, yeah it's almost just like Inside that way—it's like, I'm a bit uncomfy but this feels motivated and intentional and is hilarious all at the same time.

It's so hard to tell the difference between Bo being himself and Bo portraying his Inside-self, if there is such a distinction to be made. But is that even portraying a character, or is that just "performing honesty" like he said? I don't know, but I'm enjoying just being a fan and watching what he makes next.

SUCH: That's a great reaction! I think the murkiness and confusion is exactly the point. Bo is definitely performing in Inside (it's NOT a documentary), and unless he tells us about what's true and what's exaggerated, all we can do is guess.

My personal belief is that he was accepting the Virtuoso award as Inside Bo, still stuck in a room and wearing an N95 mask despite being alone. I thought it was bizarre but brilliant!

So I love that clip of F.D Signifier's excellent video essay on White Liberal Performative Art in works like Inside. Why did you include that component in your video essay, and what did you hope to accomplish by having that message as one of Inside's key takeaways?

Michael: I had already enjoyed F.D Signifier as a video essayist and creator for a long time. A lot of times he'll make something that is very confronting for me, and then I realize that's the point, to be challenged in a positive way that broadens my perspective.

I also appreciate F.D Signifier purposefully focusing on black media in his videos on top of the insights he gives on other media.

Since I was trying to "shut up" in this video, it felt right to have F.D Signifier's commentary speaking into that portion of the video. I had already watched his analysis video just as a fan of his before even considering it for my own, so it felt relevant to the topic and fitting to the format I was going for to feature him in that segment. 

Many, including F.D Signifier and others Ive featured in my video, have said this better than me, but I think a lot of people relate with Bo doing this dance amongst that tension of wanting to be a good person, wanting to pursue the things you love, being absolutely overwhelmed by the larger-than-life problems in the world, and for some of us seeing how you have benefited from those problems, so then what do you do about that, and then if you do something about that is it just to feel better about yourself or are you actually going to care, and then so on.

And describing that tension in a way that doesn't sound like "woe is me, I have responsibility as a human" is tricky, which is why I love the way Bo puts it and how F.D Signifier breaks it down. When I find myself doing that internal dance, I realize it's mainly just main character syndrome, as well as the mental health aspect of internal spiraling that I struggle with.

No one is looking at me to fix everything, but I don't want to do nothing about the bad things. It's not all about me, but I do have hopes, dreams and desires, and that's okay too.

SUCH: That's exactly right. And I feel like social media exacerbates that feeling because we see SO many shitty things happening around the world that we are powerless to help fix except throwing money at a problem. It's a struggle for me to even read the news now, and my psychiatrist actually put me on a media diet where I can't watch or read about current events for 3 months. It's been hard not knowing what's happening, but it definitely helps me to not spiral as much and has lessened my anxiety.

I recommend giving it a shot if the onslaught of negativity is drastically affecting your mental health!

Back to your video.

Ending on Bo watching Phoebe Bridgers is the perfect conclusion, in my opinion, and I think it's so serendipitous since the two are now IN a relationship (which I've written about extensively here). 

What was your reasoning for concluding with that footage, and what's your take on Hollywood's new power couple?

Michael: That's amazing! I had no idea they are dating. 

As far as ending that way, I just love the progression from Bo having this very personal work made during a very isolating time for many, to seeing a cover performance of that work onstage in front of a ton of people who all get to be gathered again.

The chilling way Phoebe sings the chorus also combined really well with the camera back on us as the viewer. It seemed to drive home all the points Bo makes about us all being performers in a way.

SUCH: What a great point! Yes, we are definitely all performers, and I am so thankful Jrmint was able to capture that brief moment of Bo smiling while watching her sing his song.

Phoebe and Bo had actually performed it together at the Largo prior to that concert, and most recently Bo had been following her on tour with her band boygenius (The Record is a phenomenal album by the way. Highly recommended!).

So what’s your favorite thing to edit? Least favorite? Have you made any videos you now regret or, alternatively, are there any topics you wanted to focus on but it just didn't work out for whatever reason?

Michael: I just love making videos feel like they flow, for lack of a better term. Whether I'm trying to be more funny, informative, creative, whatever, I like getting a feeling of pace down, both moment-to-moment and in the overall cut.

There is one video, my first one I made when I decided to do some videos about film media, that I've since taken down. I wasn't super comfy doing it and wasn't acting like myself. I can do that when I'm scared; I put on this cocky, funny guy attitude. But I'm still proud I did it in order to get into the swing of doing videos and being confident enough to put myself out there. I think the La La Land video was pretty soon after that.

SUCH: Yeah, it can be difficult to figure out how you want your thoughts to come across, and what's funny to you may be annoying to others. I personally think being your authentic self is the best approach because then you aren't worried that people only like your affected persona.

And yes, my advice sounds like Bo's in his old YouTube star video and the Outtakes!

Have you ever seen Bo perform live or met him in person?

Michael: Sadly, no. Maybe someday!

SUCH: Same. I've seen him direct (and have kinda interacted with him at Rothaniel), but I've never seen him perform.

Maybe he'll hit the road with Phoebe at some point? Fingers crossed lol.

So what's your favorite Bo song? Special? Feel free to name more than one.

Michael: Right now? Song, probably All Eyes On Me—has been for a while. But then The Chicken almost beat it. Special—probably still Inside for sure. 

Those things always change though, especially when he releases new stuff. I'm a few years younger than Bo, so I think I always love his most recent one most, both from his own progression as a creator, and me sort of riding his coattails as a not-quite-peer.

I guess my age is right for his content in that it usually seems to reflect on a season of life I'm going through. But that's just me; the great thing is he appeals to a lot of different people who are a lot of different ages. 

SUCH: Yeah, I'm all about The Chicken right now because of my divorce and everything.

And I agree that Bo's songs can resonate across generations. I'm eight years older than him, but I can definitely relate as an elder millennial to his views on social media and society in general. And anxiety is a universal experience!

Please tell me one fun fact about yourself that most people don’t know about. Do you have any special hobbies or interests?

Michael: Like I'd mentioned earlier, I've been a magician for over 15 years! I really enjoy showing magic to people.

SUCH: That's awesome, and it sounds like you incorporate the concepts of magic and surprising viewers into your videos haha.

What's up next for you? Any future projects in the works?

Michael: Well, on that note, I do see a shift back toward more magic focus in my YouTube future. For now I'm pouring that focus into my Instagram, but we'll see how I pick the YouTube stuff back up in the future. 

SUCH: Nice—your card tricks are REALLY impressive! I do hope you make more of your amazingly informative videos, but no pressure, obviously.

How can people best support your work? Do you have any social media you'd like to plug?

Michael: You can find that magic I'm talking about at @the.hobbyist.magic. And my YouTube is Michael R Shaw, which you can find at @TheHobbyistMagic.

SUCH: Fantastic. This has been a great discussion, Michael, and thanks for chatting with me about your videos. Good luck with your magic!

Michael: No problem!

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